Episode Transcript
[00:00:17] Speaker A: Hi MJ friends, welcome to the it's all for Love podcast. I'm your host, Cheryl Mazza, the healing dancer. And as you probably already know, but you might not if this is your first episode. This podcast is all about Michael Jackson and how he continues to inspire love in the world and inspire us to be our best selves. In this episode, I am speaking with Paul Dwyer from Melbourne, Australia.
Paul is an amazing person and he is also a huge Michael Jackson fan. We talk about how we can change the world, even though we feel like we probably can't on the magnitude that Michael has changed the world and has changed us. But we can also play a part in changing the world, maybe by just doing one act of kindness a day. We also talk about being more playful and that childlike innocence and having that joy and childlike playfulness in your life. Paul also tells some amazing stories about Michael Jackson that I cannot wait for you to hear. Paul is also the author of the book named Humanitarian the Real Michael Jackson. Also, he created a documentary called Humanitarian the Real Michael Jackson and he has a podcast of his own called Humanitarian the Real Michael Jackson. Please make sure to check out the show notes where there will be information there for Paul's website and you can check out all of what I just mentioned about the book, the documentary and his podcast. I strongly, strongly suggest that you purchase his book and give it a read and also watch the documentary and listen to the podcast. There's a lot of amazing information in there about Michael Jackson and his humanitarian efforts and all that he has done that still makes us love him even more. If you're watching on YouTube, please make sure to like this video, subscribe to the channel and as always, I love it when you leave comments so let me know how much you like the episode. If you're listening on any other podcast platform, please make sure to subscribe there as well. And I would absolutely love it if you left me a positive review. And as always, I am looking for more guests to be on the podcast and I would absolutely love to chat with you about your Michael Jackson story and to give you all the information on how you can be a guest on the podcast. Please check out the show notes for a link to schedule a coffee chat with me and go over all of the information. Thank you so much for watching and or listening to this podcast. It's all for Love.
[00:03:09] Speaker B: Hi everyone. Thank you so much for tuning in to the it's all for Love podcast. Today I am honored to have my friend Paul Dwyer here to chat with me about his Michael Jackson story. Paul is a single dad from Melbourne, Australia. He is an author and creator of the book, documentary and podcast humanitarian the Real Michael Jackson, and he is also the author of a couple other books out there. So welcome, Paul, and thank you so much for being here with me and talking with me.
[00:03:41] Speaker C: Thank you, Cheryl. It's an honor. Yeah, it's an honor to get to connect with somebody else who's doing similar stuff to me with the podcast. And I've been watching your episodes, and I really enjoy them. So good work.
[00:03:55] Speaker B: Thank you so much. And I love your podcast. So anyone out there who hasn't checked.
[00:03:59] Speaker A: Out Paul's podcast, please do.
[00:04:01] Speaker B: I'll put information in the show notes for that as well.
[00:04:05] Speaker C: Cool.
[00:04:06] Speaker A: All right, well, let's get to it.
[00:04:09] Speaker B: I want to know your story. I want to know when you first discovered Michael Jackson.
[00:04:15] Speaker C: Well, I'm an old man, so I discovered the first time I discovered Michael Jackson was Motown 25.
I remember clearly seeing that moonwalk and just being sort of spellbound by that. And it's funny, we were at a family gathering. I don't know if it was at a birthday or some sort of family gathering.
And I remember we had relatives, uncles and aunties and cousins and brothers and sisters. And when he did the moonwalk, everybody just stopped and just looked with mouths open and sort of went, what the hell was that? And everybody looked at each other and said, was that magic? Was that.
You know, what was that? And we were just spellbound by it. So then my. One of my cousins had. I think it was the making of Thriller video, some sort of vhs. So he's like, oh, I've got more stuff. And he put that in, and we watched Thriller. And from that day on, I think I was pretty hooked. I was about five or six at the time.
[00:05:24] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:05:24] Speaker C: So, you know, it's not like I was buying my own records or anything, but I was pretty hooked. Um, I remember, you know, I'm here in Australia, you'd have to wait until the weekend to get to watch music videos.
We'd have this thing called rage on the TV every weekend, and it went for, like, 24 hours of just music videos. So I remember on the weekends, I would just watch Rage and wait for the Michael Jackson videos.
And that was it up until, you know, the bad era, the bad and dangerous era. I suppose I was a little bit older. I was starting to buy my own music and record my own music off the radio and keep them on cassettes, you know, coming. Coming into an age I know your young listeners will know what I'm talking about, but, yeah, getting to record my own music and listen to my own music in my own time. And so that was the Bad and Dangerous errors. So I took a bit more ownership then.
Loved both. I think Bad is still probably my favorite album.
And then Dangerous was just like a work of art that I'd never heard before.
Yeah. And then I suppose from there you go to history and which is when I got to see Michael live in Australia and meet him. I got to meet him at the hotel a couple of times and see him live. And again, that just upped my fandom to another level because I've been to plenty of concerts before, but never seen anything like that before.
And, yeah, getting to meet the man, it's pretty special. And I told you, last time we were talking about how I hung out at the hotel for a week and we slept out the front and, you know, Michael would come down after the media had left and the hundreds of fans would leave, and there's only a dedicated few of us that would sleep out the front. Dedicated.
Insane. I don't know. Yeah.
But not so insane because he came down a few times and said hello, and he gave out roses and said, you know, that he appreciates us and he can see us. And he felt the support and he appreciated it. And that was just magical, too, because I'd never heard of any other superstars. He was the biggest star in the world at the time doing that and connecting with fans like that. So that was pretty special.
[00:08:09] Speaker A: Wow.
[00:08:09] Speaker B: That's amazing. I can't even imagine what that felt like, to see him right there and hear that from him. He always said how much he appreciated his fans, and then he comes out and.
And says it right to all of you there.
[00:08:25] Speaker C: Yeah. And it was genuine, too. You know, you can feel that when someone's genuine. Yeah. And it was. You could feel it. Definitely.
[00:08:34] Speaker B: Thank you for sharing that with us.
Yeah.
[00:08:38] Speaker C: I still get butterflies when I talk about it. Sure.
[00:08:41] Speaker B: It's like, I can't. How can you not? You know, Michael was just such a special energy in this world and still is.
[00:08:50] Speaker C: And you. You don't have to thank me for telling you. Thank you for allowing me to. Because I would just tell everybody every time I meet someone, hey, guess what?
So it's nice just to be able to say it to someone who appreciates it.
[00:09:03] Speaker B: Yeah. Yes. And I can't even imagine what that must have felt like to see him in concert, like, just watching him on tv, you know, Is great, but, like, to actually be there, I mean, yeah.
[00:09:16] Speaker C: The atmosphere was amazing. And I've seen everybody from Madonna, Prince Gaga, all of them.
And MJ still remains my favorite concert of all time. Yeah, still. And it's, you know.
[00:09:32] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:09:32] Speaker C: 30 years, 40 years later. Oh, my goodness. 30 years later.
[00:09:36] Speaker B: It doesn't feel like it.
Yeah.
[00:09:39] Speaker C: Crazy.
[00:09:42] Speaker B: Well, is there anything Michael inspired you to do in your life?
[00:09:51] Speaker C: Yeah, I suppose. Look, later in life. So after History, the History tour, he came to Australia. I created an Australian fan group on Facebook and I created this website where I documented all his visits to Australia.
And it was during my research for that website that I started to find out all the humanitarian acts that Michael did, because, you know, they weren't covered on the news or in the magazines. So when I started discovering all that, I think that's when I really felt like, oh, well, I felt the love and felt connected and was inspired. And it was more than just admiring a singer or an entertainer. I felt like this was something that I really wanted to connect with and find out about. And again, something I'd never heard of anybody else doing, apart from, you know, maybe Princess Diana. There's a bit of coverage of her doing some good things, but.
So once I started finding out all those humanitarian acts, I started documenting that and just for my own sort of records. I don't know why I started doing it.
And the more I read about that, the more I was inspired to just try and do, be kind and try and, you know, we can't all change the world, but if we just perform one act of kindness a day, I felt like that was my way of honoring him or copy, not copying him, but being inspired by him. And I thought that's what his message was. You know, if I can do all these acts of kindness, maybe other people will be inspired to do the same thing.
Man in the Mirror. You know, if you want to make the world a better place, take a look at yourself.
[00:11:46] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:11:46] Speaker C: So I think during all those years of researching all that, I just fell in love with that aspect of Michael Jackson, more so than the music and the entertainment side.
And I really felt connected to that. So I suppose that inspired me.
You know, I worked on with my own charity for quite a few years, but then found, for me personally, I found it more rewarding just to try and apply those aspects to everyday life in everything you do and everyone you come across, just to try and help people.
Little things here and there and.
Yeah, and that's what a humanitarian is. That's what Michael Jackson was.
[00:12:34] Speaker B: Yeah.
I think I have to say that the thing that I love most about how Michael has inspired all of us is that it's. It's kind of like the same for everybody. He inspires us to be better people, you know, inspires us to be that loving, kind person that he was because we saw the effect that it had on other people.
Not only do we want to feel that from others, but we also want to give it. So.
[00:13:05] Speaker C: Yeah. And I know, like, for me, when I was raising my young children, a big inspiration I used to feel back then was allowing them to have their childhood and. And trying to discover that in myself through them and, you know, not forgetting about playfulness and child, like, joy and all those sort of aspects too. And I feel like my life has been better for taking that from Michael Jackson. The childlike innocence, not only making sure my kids had it, but trying to find that and live that myself.
I'm 47 years old. I'll still go and swing on the swings and play in the playground, and I'll never stop doing that. I don't think anyone should.
You've got to make time to play.
[00:13:54] Speaker B: That's right. That's what makes life better.
[00:13:58] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:13:58] Speaker B: Yeah.
How does Michael continue to show up magically in your life?
[00:14:06] Speaker C: Oh, wow.
He has shown up quite a few times in the making of my book and documentary. You know, things have just fallen into my lap where I'm researching, and I want to, you know, I'll be looking for information on certain hospitals or orphanages that he visited in the 80s and 90s. And of course, there was no Internet back then, so a lot of it's not documented and quite difficult to find. Well, was. And I just found along the way, lots of bits of information falling into my lap from the heavens, it seemed that just pointed me in the right direction. You know, some of the people that have been on my podcast and who I've interviewed for my book have just come through chance of people. Somehow they found me or I found them. And at the right time, when I needed someone to. To interview for my podcast, they would just comment on one of my social media posts, and all of a sudden we're having a conversation. And so in that way, I feel like he sort of helped me out compile this book. He sort of given me bits and pieces and hooked me up with people here and there.
And also, I suppose, you know, getting to know some of the family and going over and meeting them and getting to know them, I feel like that's been guided by him as well. And his spirit?
Very much so. Yeah.
[00:15:44] Speaker B: When you went to Havenhurst, could you feel his presence at all?
[00:15:49] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:15:50] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:15:51] Speaker C: Yes. 100. And the standout moment for me because I went to thriller night in 2022. I think it was the standout moment for me. And, you know, I've been in this Michael Jackson community for many, many years. And it was amazing to come first of all to the Jackson home, but to meet up with people that I'd been speaking to for years from all around the world. There was people from Germany, America, of course. I know there was some British people there.
Beautiful, beautiful people. Michael Jackson fans are the most beautiful people in the world.
So to meet up with them. And the standout moment for me was at the end of the night when man in the Mirror came on and we're all dancing on the dance floor and everyone just started holding hands. We were holding hands and we had our hands in the air and we're dancing to man in the Mirror just outside of Michael Jackson's bedroom. And that was just magic. I remember just feeling the love from everybody and feeling how happy everybody was. And it was just. Love was. You could feel it. 100.
[00:17:02] Speaker B: Yeah. I'm getting chills just thinking, like, imagining it. I can't. The energy that he brings between people is just.
[00:17:11] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. When his whole message was. When his whole message was unity and being together and loving one another. And you're doing that in his family home.
[00:17:20] Speaker B: It's right. Oh, wow.
[00:17:22] Speaker C: So surreal.
[00:17:23] Speaker B: That's awesome.
Well, if you had to pick a favorite Michael Jackson song, what would it be?
[00:17:29] Speaker C: Man in the Mirror.
Pretty quick, huh?
I mean, what I listen. What I listen to on repeat changes a lot.
[00:17:39] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:17:40] Speaker C: Another one would be off the Wall. I really dig off the Wall.
That is on repeat a lot at the moment.
And what's that one? I think it's called We've Had Enough.
It's one of those rare songs. I really like that one. It changes a lot. Man in the Mirror is always my number one.
[00:18:02] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:18:03] Speaker C: And if I listen to the whole thing entirely, I usually cry, but, yeah. The other ones rotate.
[00:18:14] Speaker B: Yours, mine, Mine is the way you make me feel.
[00:18:20] Speaker C: Wow.
[00:18:21] Speaker B: That's my ultimate favorite. Yeah. Because as a child when I was dancing, I would dance to that song like my parents. I was old enough to be home alone and I would come home from school and I would blast that song and pretend like I was the girl.
[00:18:35] Speaker C: In the video and Michael was walking after you.
[00:18:40] Speaker B: My dream was to dance for Michael and to be that Girl on stage. But I love it, so at least I got to pretend, you know.
But yeah, no, that's my. That's my favorite song. Every time I hear that song. Come on, you know, I get.
[00:18:56] Speaker C: Oh, yeah, I don't skip that one. Yeah.
[00:19:01] Speaker B: Do you have a favorite short film that he did?
[00:19:06] Speaker C: Yeah, my go to would have to be Smooth Criminal.
Yeah, yeah, Smooth Criminal.
[00:19:17] Speaker B: Okay. Yeah, that's a great one.
[00:19:20] Speaker C: Yeah. Hands down, actually. But, yeah, I prefer watching his live concerts rather than video clips or short films. But even the live version of Smooth Criminal, I just love that and how he recreated that Lean.
[00:19:41] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:19:41] Speaker C: You know how he came up with that? I do not know to do that live on stage, but that's pretty cool too.
[00:19:48] Speaker B: Yeah, that's amazing. I would fall. Even with the thing in the.
In the stage, I take some poor action there.
[00:19:57] Speaker C: Yep. Yeah, I've tried it a few times. On a Friday night when I'm watching the concert, I fall.
[00:20:05] Speaker B: I have to get that on video. Paul.
[00:20:08] Speaker C: No, you don't want to see that.
Actually, I think there's a video out there somewhere.
[00:20:14] Speaker B: But anyway, I'll have to find it. No.
Well, what do you want the world to know about Michael Jackson?
[00:20:24] Speaker C: Pretty much what I've put in my book. All the acts of kindness that he performed and, you know, his heart, his character and the human being he was. And I know that he was one of the greatest entertainers of all time. We know his vocals were off the charts. He had one of the best vocalists of all time. His dancing, his technique in his dancing was one of the greatest of all time.
But not many people know about the humanitarian acts and his heart and his character. And I, you know, maybe he didn't want to be known for that, I don't know. But I think in this day and age where so much information is accessible and everybody's life is out there on the Internet, such a different time to when he was around.
You know, you look at singers, entertainers, celebrities now, it's not just what they put up on the screen or on an album, you get to know their life. And Michael was living in a different time when that accessible information wasn't necessarily there 24 7, but now that it is, I think that's what I would like people to know, that he was a good person and, you know, he wanted to make the world a better place. And he didn't just talk about it, he acted it. And it was a bigger part of his life than his music to some degree. Like he was visiting these hospitals and orphanages more often than playing concerts or recording music. And when he was playing concerts, there were sick kids, you know, there on stage with him or backstage meeting him, or he was giving out hundreds of free tickets to kids at the same time. He had to Heal the World foundation that were, you know, dropping supplies off in War Town areas of the world while he was performing. So I just think it's a massive, massive part of who he was and an aspect that should not be forgotten.
[00:22:30] Speaker B: Yeah, no, I agree. Definitely. That was a huge part of who he was.
[00:22:36] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:22:36] Speaker B: And everybody should know.
[00:22:39] Speaker C: I hope they cover some of that in the upcoming biopic.
[00:22:42] Speaker B: Yes, I know. I hope so, too. I mean, that was such a huge part of his life. So. Yeah, hopefully that's. It's in there.
[00:22:50] Speaker C: Yeah. Wish I. I mean, you know, the video. The video clips are there forever. They're up on YouTube. They're. His songs are in the streaming forum, so they're there forever.
Humanitarian stuff aren't as much. And that's why I do what I do, because I'm trying to get them out into the public forum. Just like what you're doing. It's exactly the same. You know, who would have thought, 15 years later, someone's going to start a podcast talking about how Michael Jackson and the love of Michael Jackson inspires other people to come together and to do this. So thank you for your work and what you're doing. I think it's amazing.
[00:23:27] Speaker B: Thank you.
[00:23:27] Speaker A: It's.
[00:23:28] Speaker B: It's a.
It's a joy of mine. Anytime I talk about Michael, it just lights me up and feel like a kid again. So.
[00:23:37] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:23:38] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:23:39] Speaker C: Joy.
[00:23:40] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, thank you so much. Is there anything else you would like to share with us or. About Michael?
[00:23:51] Speaker C: Gee, I have some pretty cool stories.
Look, I'll tell you a quick story. When he was here in Melbourne, as I said, we stayed at the front of the hotel, and we. He would come out and go to hospitals, and then he'd come back to the hotel and he'd go and do his gig and come back to the hotel.
But when he would drive out, he had these little minivans called Taragos here. And he would drive down to us, drive down the street, and, you know, us fans are at the front, would chase the car, and of course, they were too fast. They would get a couple of streets away, and then we'd keep running and catch up to him, and he would open the door, open the window, and say, come, come catch up to me. And so we catch up to him and then he'd close the door and they'd do another block, another street, and then stop and wait for us. And then he'd go, he'd open the door and say, come catch me. Catch me. And we did that for hours around the city of Melbourne, and that was really fun. And every time we get close to him, he'd shut the door and you could just see him laughing, going, come on, let's go another block.
It was hilarious.
[00:24:56] Speaker B: That was awesome. He got you your exercise in.
[00:25:01] Speaker C: Yeah, got my steps up.
[00:25:04] Speaker B: That is awesome.
[00:25:05] Speaker C: So that was. That was a fun little time.
[00:25:07] Speaker B: Yeah, awesome. Well, thank you so much, Paul, for chatting with us and thank you.
[00:25:14] Speaker C: Thank you for accommodating my time difference. I know it's 5 o'clock there and look how gorgeous she looks. Guys, you've done so well. Thank you so much. Can't believe you look like that at 5 o'clock in the morning. That's just crazy.
[00:25:26] Speaker B: Thank you. Well, I will get up at any time to talk about Michaels.
[00:25:30] Speaker C: So true. You know, I appreciate it.
[00:25:34] Speaker B: Thank you so much. And we will see you all soon. It's all for love. Bye.
