Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
[00:00:09] Speaker B: Hi everyone. Welcome to the it's all for Love podcast. I'm Cheryl Mazza, the healing Dancer, your host.
This podcast is all about Michael Jackson and how he continues to spread love in our world and inspires us to live our best lives.
Thank you so much for watching and or listening to this episode. But before we get to the episode, I have a few things that I.
[00:00:33] Speaker A: Want to tell you.
[00:00:34] Speaker B: If you are watching this podcast on YouTube, please make sure that you are subscribed to the YouTube channel and also like the video of the episode that you are watching. And I would also love it if you would leave us some comments about how much you loved the episode. If you are listening on any other podcast platform, if you are able to please subscribe on that platform. And also what would really help me is if you would leave a review on whatever podcast platform you are listening on. The reviews help the podcast to be more seen and to spread the word to other Michael Jackson fans about the podcast. And as always, I am looking for guests to be on the podcast. So if you would like to be a guest on this podcast and tell your Michael Jackson story, I would absolutely love to chat with you. Make sure to check out the show notes and find the link to click on to schedule a coffee chat with me.
Or you can email me. The email address is also in the show notes. Thank you again for listening and or watching. It's all for Love.
[00:01:42] Speaker A: Hi everyone. Welcome to the it's all for Love podcast. I'm Cheryl Mazza, the healing dancer, your host.
And today we have Andy Smith from South of England.
Andy grew up in Scotland and he struggled with alcohol addiction for most of his life.
And inspiration comes from strange places sometimes. And Andy's going to tell us about his story and how Michael inspired him.
So welcome Andy, to the podcast.
[00:02:11] Speaker C: Hey, thank you.
Absolutely lovely to be here. And what a lovely theme that you, you have for this is so relevant to my journey. And yeah, and I guess as you kind of describe me, you know, I live in the south of England now in the uk, near London, but I actually grew up on a, in actually the most remote part of the uk, the Shetland Islands, which is right off to the north, kind of on the way towards Iceland almost.
And yeah, I grew up on a small island, seven miles by three with 300 people on it.
And yeah, as you say, alcohol was a big part of my life and a lot of that was kind of formed, I think, in my early years with maybe not a lot to do and things like that. So it's been quite a journey. But, but yeah, Michael was a real turning point for me in terms of something that was a lifelong battle. And it's, it's interesting, isn't it, how music can sometimes just cut through and make things land a little bit differently?
[00:03:22] Speaker B: I guess, yes.
[00:03:23] Speaker A: I'm, I'm excited for you to tell your story. I think that a lot of people will be able to draw inspiration from your story.
[00:03:31] Speaker C: Well, I mean, the. Yeah, so, I mean, I guess kind of let's go back to where it all began, you know, when I was a, when I was a young lad growing up, you know, I mean, an amazing place to grow up, the Shetland Island Islands.
You know, you're out, you can. You know, I remember as a kid sitting on a little pier next to my house, you know, with a, with a bunch of seals around me, you know, wild seals, and just sitting there looking at them and, and talking to them and things, and you think, wow, that's, that's quite an exceptional place to, to grow up. Lots of wildlife, lots of things to do in terms of.
Spent lots of times messing around in boats and fishing and, and just living that kind of outdoor lifestyle.
But the kind of downside to it given that, you know, there were no cinemas and we had one TV channel, you had to kind of make your own entertainment and a lot of the, the sort of, the social life revolved around alcohol. Well, I actually grew up in a bar. We bought a big old house and turned it into a guest house and a, in a, and a pub on the island. And so our very livelihood was dependent on people consuming alcohol in our house. And I really kind of can see now that that really just sort of seeped into me psychologically and, and, and actually growing up as a young man, you kind of felt the way that you gave yourself kind of meaning, the way you sort of defined yourself was by how much you, you know, you were, you were judged harshly if you couldn't had your drink, as they would say up there, but if you could sit and drink, you know, a bottle of whiskey or whatever, then you were considered to be a man.
And I kind of carried this sort of psychological framework all the way, sort of through, through my life as it were, in terms of.
Went away to university, party, party, party. That was great. Alcohol, alcohol, alcohol. And then I started a, a corporate career and I was very successful. I gradually worked my way up through the healthcare industry. I ran veterinary companies, pharmaceutical companies, dentistry companies and.
But all the while it was underpinned by this really unhealthy relationship with alcohol.
And I tried what I considered to be everything.
I went to Alcoholics Anonymous, I went to see my doctor, I went to hypnotherapy.
I tried all the things that would, you would consider to be the kind of conventional ways to try and sort this. And, and I battled this for decades.
I was a father of three, I'd had one marriage that had, had failed. I was in a new relationship, new young son.
And, and I just turned 50 and I was really struggling with the drinking. And it had got to the point where I was drinking perhaps up to a liter of spirits in, in one go and all the time hating myself for this. And there was a couple of things that happened.
One, I had this, I had a huge panic attack and I collapsed in my local supermarket. And, and I remember I, I fell into one of the fridges, literally amongst all the bacon and the sausages and all this kind of stuff. And this lovely little old lady kind of helped me up. He was asking me if I'm okay and I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm fine, I'm fine. I just slipped. And all the time I'm thinking I am not fine at all. And I just felt devastated, full of despair and self loathing and anyway, I got myself back to my feet, went around my day and I, I was just thinking around, you know, this is not right what I'm doing. I'm killing myself here.
And I assumed that nothing was going to help me. I just felt completely unfixable.
And a few days later I was running late for a meeting in a car and I was coming up what, the part of the route where I would go and get on the, the motorway, the freeway takes me past the railway crossing with the, you know, the automatic barriers and things.
And I was driving along and I could see the light starting to flash which indicated that the barriers were going to come down. And I was running late. So I started to floor the accelerator and as I got closer I realized I'm not going to make this. I'm not going to beat these barriers. I'm going to get hit by a train at this rate. And so I screeched to a halt right in front of these barriers as they came down. And my heart is. You know what it's like when something like that happens? Your heart's banging away out your chest and, and I, I just thought, wow, this is crazy what I'm doing here. And then the man in the mirror came on the radio and I was sitting there sort of Stewing and fuming that I was getting held up. I was already late.
And like most of us, I've heard that song hundreds of times before.
And, and just there was something about that day, given what had happened in the supermarket, given how I was feeling in that moment. I think also the fact that I was in my car and looking at myself in the rear view mirror with the bloodshot eyes, the dark circles under my eyes, and that first line of the chorus, you know, I'm starting with the man in the mirror and I'm asking him to change his ways.
And there, there is. I mean, I. I have deconstructed that song so many times when, when I understand the impact that it had on me, but it was just really interesting. In that moment, I. I was kind of forced to really listen to the lyrics in a different way. And that sentiment, that one word of asking, you know, I'm starting with the man in the mirror. And I'd spent years blaming my circumstances.
I'd kidded myself that in order to be successful, I had to drink, to relax and all this kind of stuff. I, I literally written it off as the kind of the price of success, and yet I hated it.
And I think anybody who's been addicted to anything will understand that there's very little joy that comes from it.
You, you're kind of telling yourself that today is going to be different and it's not, and that's crushing to your self esteem and your sense of self worth.
And there was just something about that message. I'm starting with the man in the mirror and I'm asking him to change his ways. And I literally looked at my reflection in the rear view mirror and I just, I asked the question, are you up for this? Are you willing to do what it takes to actually change? And.
And it was almost like somebody else answered back, this kind of reflected version of me that went, yeah, I'm ready. I'll do whatever it takes.
And.
And that was a really profound moment, life changing. And it set me off on a voyage of discovery to think about, well, you know, what does changing my ways look like? And, and if I ask the man in the mirror, what answers might I get?
And.
And so I called my boss and I said, look, I'm not feeling well. I'm gonna take a few days off and, and rest up. And.
Because I. I just knew that this was important. It was a moment that I needed to kind of run with. You know, it's like on a football field, get past the ball. You got to Just go, you know, these opportunities don't come around. And I could feel something was different. So I, and my life was so ironic in that I was so successful in changing how other people felt about things and yet I couldn't do it to myself. And what that Michael Jackson song did was, it actually, it was like a key in a lot to just unlock me. And, and I just, I, I went home, I, I got all of my old selling and influencing course materials. I'd done a lot of personal development work around mindfulness and things like that. I pulled it all out of the bottom of old cupboards and things like that and, and put it in the car and I drove down to, there's a little lake near where I live.
You can, there's a lovely car park overlooking the thing. And, and, and I, I said, right, okay, the answers are here somewhere. I, I just need to find them and in a way that makes sense for me.
And, and so I spread everything out over the dashboard, over the seats. And, and I started that, you know, to answer that question, you know, I'm asking him to change his ways. And, and it was like, what do I need to do? What, what is it I've been missing?
And, and so I started to kind of almost have a bit of an out of body experience where it was, okay, if, if I'm so good at changing how other people feel about things, what would I do if somebody came to me asking for help with this?
And it completely reframed how I was looking at this. And so I started to map out a bit of a process about, well, I would start with this, then we do a bit of that and then reinforce that with a bit of this. And then in order to make it sustainable, we'd finish with that. So yeah, I, I, I mapped out what was basically a seven step process and just worked my way through it. And bit by bit I could start to feel things starting to shift and I thought, oh, this is kind of interesting. And I remember going back to, to Louise, my partner, and, and, and I said, you know, this, something's happened here. I just, I, I feel differently and I can't quite put my finger on it. And actually everything I've learned now about the subconscious mind is this is how it works, you know, it's, it's, it's that subconscious feeling that actually drives all of our behaviors, you know, and if you think about a lot of Michael Jackson's messaging about love and things like that, you know, it's, it's, it is very much you know, at that kind of core driver kind of level, if you are a, a being of love, if you care for other people, then that's, that's, you know, you and your purest intent. Or if you're somebody who is acting out of fear, then, and we see a lot of that in the world just now, you know, there you, you behave very differently. And you know, so I, I went back and I said to be said, you know, this is, this is different. And I think if anybody has lived with anybody or been around anybody who's struggled with addiction, you kind of lose a bit of hope, you lose a bit of faith in them that maybe they'll ever do it. You know, promises are made and then those promises are broken. And she, she said, okay, great, good, yes.
But was very qualified in her sort of response to it. And I felt a little angry about that because I was kind of like, hang on a minute. You know, I've had this massive epiphany, you know, with this Michael Jackson song and things like that. And, and, but she can't reach inside my head. She doesn't know how I'm feeling.
But she just said, good, I'm really pleased. Well, let's see, let's see how it goes. And, and then days turned into a few weeks and I started to feel stronger, I started to feel better because I wasn't poisoning myself every day.
And, and then, you know, things just snowballed from there. I started to get my health back, I started to get my self esteem back.
I've gone on to do amazing stuff now for charity on my bike. I've ridden the course of the Tour de France for disadvantaged children. I've even ridden my bike to Everest Base Camp in January. I rode across the Arctic and all the while sort of raising money for good causes that I feel passionate about. And you know, sometimes people say, oh, you know, you're, you're a lovely guy. And it's, you know, you're very altruistic about this stuff. And, and I'm like, actually I'm quite selfish about this stuff because I'm doing these things which are almost like an antidote to the amount of self loathing that I used to feel for so many years.
So now choose to prioritize the things that make me feel good.
So, and I get quite a big kick out of, you know, doing something that, you know, spreads a bit of love in the world and things like that. And, and so, and I now help other people with my, with, with addiction issues and I get to see the most wonderful transformations in people's lives. And, you know, it's, it would be churlish. You know, sometimes people say, what has it got you sober? And, and I say, well, you're not going to believe it if I told you it was the Michael Jackson song the man in the Mirror. And, and they're like, oh, okay, maybe I need to go and listen to that song. And I'm like, no, it doesn't quite work like that.
You've got to be, you've got to be ready to receive it in a certain way. You know, I'd heard that song hundreds and hundreds of times before, you know, from the early 80s. You know, Michael Jackson was just, he was there, you know, the king of pop, as it says on your shirt, and, you know, kind of omnipresent around. But it wasn't until that day that his musical creations were able to kind of reach out to me and give me the inspiration and the hope that I needed.
But the journey is about self discovery and I think the, the, you know, the man in the mirror of itself is a very powerful exercise. When I'm doing guided visualizations with people, we, we talk about future selves and things like that and that ability to, you know, look at yourself from the outside almost, or see where you're going in life and things like that. It is such a powerful tool. And, and I think probably a lot of the kind of the messaging in that song and other songs, people didn't really.
Some people did, don't get me wrong, but a lot of people didn't really understand the, the significance of, you know, self love about, you know, acting with a, you know, from a, a position of, of good intent.
And yeah, you know, it, it's, it's just funny how certain moments can just change everything and sometimes those things can be really bad. You know, some bad stuff happens and you never look at, you know, your life the same way again.
And you know, I was so grateful that my epiphany, which came off the back of that terrible situation in the, in the supermarket where I literally thought I was going to die.
My heart rate was hammering out my chest and, and I felt like my skin was on fire. And, and I thought, wow, this is, this is how it ends here. You know, remember that moment, even though it's eight years ago now.
Remember it like it was yesterday.
And you know, then on the back of that, when I was starting to ask different questions, the answers came. You know, it's like the old saying, isn't it? That the, when the student is ready, the teacher and I didn't realize who my teacher was going to be.
[00:20:16] Speaker A: Such an amazing story.
A lot of the times when you were talking, I was getting choked up. I want to cry because it's like I, I, it, I just. Because Michael shows up in everybody's life when it's the right time. That's what, that's the gist of me, like talking to other people, you know, that are fans or have been fans. And there's even people that, you know, didn't like discover him, as I call it, until later in life, you know.
[00:20:47] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:20:48] Speaker A: Because it's like, it's almost like a spiritual thing. Like he just comes to you when you need it and when you're ready to receive it.
[00:20:56] Speaker C: Yeah. And you know, I'd been, I, I wouldn't probably have classed myself as a fan. Never saw him and never saw him live now met him.
But you know, I bought Thriller in the early 80s.
You know, the music was just always a kind, almost like the soundtrack of my life in a way. And you know, that thing just kind of bubbling up just. Yeah. To that moment back in 2017.
Bang Pop. You know, there it went, the King of Pop. You know, it was literally my life went pop in that moment and, and everything changed. And you get to these moments in your life where nothing is ever the same again. You can't ever look at anything with the same eyes because your perspective shifts and, and that's what he did for me and I will always be eternally grateful.
[00:21:53] Speaker A: Does. Has he shown up in your life at all since then?
[00:21:59] Speaker C: I think, you know, it's made me appreciate the sentiment in the music more.
I think obviously there was a lot of his stuff was quite misunderstood, I think at the time or, or perhaps the depth of it was not fully appreciated. And I find when I listen to his music now, I, I feel a kind of more of a, a resonance with him and his spirit. So you kind of.
I find myself looking for messages in, in some of the lyrics and things like that. And how can I interpret that, you know, maybe a little bit differently to how I used to. I can't see I've had another man in the mirror type, life changing moment. But, you know, it's just, it's kind of strangely comforting, I would say, to just have a, you know, a positive narrative, I guess.
[00:22:58] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:22:59] Speaker C: To just feel a degree of comfort with.
[00:23:03] Speaker A: What do you want the world to know about Michael Jackson?
[00:23:07] Speaker C: I think just, you know, love takes many forms and, and I think you know, a lot of people didn't understand, you know, the kind of. The purity of his intent. I think when you.
When you operate in an environment like he did, when, you know, how he grew up and the kind of. The way he was treated and.
And also that, you know, that kind of slightly rarefied atmosphere that, you know, global megastars get themselves into. It's. It's a kind of a.
Not representative of lot of how a lot of us live. But I think he still came back to that core thing of, you know, and so many musicians, you know, your love is all there is. Love is all around.
I think just that kind of unifying message. It's the one thing that we all have in common and that. And fear.
And a lot of people are playing the fear game, and that is also seductive. And I think it sometimes takes a bit of courage to.
To love and. And to be loved and to accept love and. Yeah. And I think over time, I think that will definitely be his legacy to the world.
[00:24:34] Speaker A: Definitely. I agree.
Thank you so much, Andy, for telling us your story and sharing with us.
[00:24:43] Speaker C: My absolute pleasure.
[00:24:44] Speaker A: Yes. Thank you so much.
And that's it for now.
[00:24:50] Speaker C: Great stuff.
[00:24:51] Speaker A: Have an amazing day.
What was that?
[00:24:54] Speaker C: Lovely to see you again.
[00:24:56] Speaker A: Lovely to see you too. I hope you all have a great day. It's all for love, and we'll see you next time.
[00:25:03] Speaker C: Bye.
[00:25:10] Speaker A: Sam.
